Call for details with your specific combination. The idle quality was better with the 112-degree LSA but not as good as the wider 120-degree cam.The ultra-wide 120-degree LSA lost low-speed power and never recovered, but know that this wide LSA is often beneficial on positive displacement, supercharged applications. I had a 110 cam in my beetle and I didn't like it-the bottom end was doggy. Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. But it is a piece of good news for your engine. The custom cams we selected all featured 0.624-inch lift (both intake and exhaust) and a 232/242-degree duration split. If you're an OEM automaker looking for a steady idle, good fuel economy, and passing tailpipe emissions, this is the cam of choice. Thanks for the replies, particularly that link Marc, very informative. We even treated them to some chamber work before installation. 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree) LSA (green lines) lost considerable torque to the other two cams. The introduction of Lunati'snew Bootleggerhydraulic series - with its wicked 108-degree lobe-separation angle, fast opening profile and plenty of area under the lift curve - will serve only to fuel the flames on this heated bench-racing topic. To demonstrate changes to lobe separation in action, we ordered three camshafts from Comp Cams, all ground with identical lift (0.541 intake and 0.537 exhaust) and duration (230 intake and 236 exhaust) but with three different LSAs: a 101, a 107, and a 113. As lobe seperation spreads does the powerband. Disorganization of language and working memory systems in frontal Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. I do believe that stock VW seperation is 108 and 112 is used alot in turbo and midrange cams for VW's while 106 is used for the top end cams. LSA is a result of valve timing events. On the cranking compression test, Brul recorded 175 psi, a 10-psi drop from the outgoing 101 cam. What real difference does the lsa on a cam make? If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? Only once the intake valve has closed can compression begin to build. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. If you look at any given cam catalog, you will find that the majority of street-oriented cams fall in this range. 4-Link72, do you run racing gas or pump with 10.5:1 CR? Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. So, you can enjoy a mighty acceleration power at 110 LSA. Not a HUGE, but a significant difference between 110 and 112, but those are the trends. A good amount of idle vacuum or increased idle vacuum found at 110 LSA advances the engines efficiency. But remember, although a broader powerband has a couple of acceleration advantages, it also comes with a few drawbacks. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. 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But, the narrow or broad powerband choice varies from person to person. But an interestingly shocking fact is that this event escalates the air-fuel mixtures reaction rates, causing temperatures to rise and causing the problem of overheating the engine. I had an XE 274 in it. The valve covers, valvetrain, intake manifold, harmonic balancer, front cover, timing set, and cam were yanked. - Sheryl Crow. Ed JTO learn to park Joined May 31, 2009 180 Posts Increasing the EGR effect has a good side in that it reduces the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. It will also give you a smoother idle and probably even better gas mileage. The engine would idle a lot rougher and generate worse exhaust emissions largely because of unburned fuel.. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. by mrsmythe Wed May 14, 2003 2:26 am, Post Looking at 108vs. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. Camshaft Shootout: Lobe-Separation Angle Tested and Explained - MotorTrend Well, there can be different reasons for this problem. Good luck. 114 lsa cam sound clips | LS1LT1 Forum Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by, http://www.webcamshafts.com/cam_glossary.html, http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter haft/3.htm, Webcam 86A 108LC w/1.5 vs 86B 112LC w/1.3s. A 112 LSA would be better if I had an automatic, but the engine builder (who has built many, many drag racing engines)told me I would have much faster acceleration with the 108, at the expense of a broader power band of course, but that 108 would not unduly penalize me for the street. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. Need some Cam Advice! | Chevy Tri Five Forum Despite no changes in lift or duration, this cam sounded much more aggressive than the other two with wider LSAs. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. If you drew a line that divided the intake lobe in half right at the point of maximum lift, then did the same to the exhaust lobe, then measured the distance in cam degrees between the two, that would be the lobe separation angle. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is comparatively a wider LSA; it can generate a massive amount of RPM for the engine. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. 05 To ensure our stroker combo had sufficient airflow, we installed a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC-ported LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. Pontiac 326 Vs Chevy 327 Differences & Similarities. But to choose the perfect cam, all of that information needs understanding. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. Lucky for us, Brian Tooley Racing stepped up with a dual spring package that allowed us to safely run our 0.624-lift cam. Lobe sepsration is an advanced description for overlap.If you take a cam on a 112,and grind it on a 108,you add more overlap,the time the valves are both open.Narrower lobe centers mean more low end and midrange torque,along with a peakier powerband,and a slightly rougher idle.Tradeoffs are sensitivity to octane ratings,total timing, and air fuel ratio.A lot to swallow I know,hope this helps you. Check out the Comp Cams catalog, even the biggest hydraulic rollers use 110. also,, wider will produce a wider and more flat torque curve that doesn't fall off as abruptly up top rpms. music to your ears? Camshaft Lobe Seperation | Team Chevelle The stock valvesprings supplied with the CNC LS3 heads were swapped out in favor of a set of dual springs from Brian Tooley Racing. The Idles increasing vacuum improves the idle quality and the engines overall performance. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Disclaimer: Remember to always consult with an expert first before trying anything at home. How do the lobe separations change when you factor in turbocharging? Lobe Separation Angle "LSA "Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 17 of 17 Posts . If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. It also depends on what the vehicle will be used for and if economy and vacuum are important. from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one. When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Most cars use more than, Read More Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? . THis is a real generalization, but the weaker your heads, the more you will like the smaller centers ( 106-108) the better the heads, and the higher the compression, the more it will like the wider centers ( 112-114)everything else falls somewhere in the middle( 108-110) Once you get close with the cam centerlines, it wont make much differance if you change it up or down by 2 degrees. I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. 10 Tuning the timing curve and fuel from the 42-lb/hr FAST injectors was handled by this Holley HP management system. I know a little about cams. Ultimately, it comes down to how you want the engine to run, the car's intended purpose, and what you are willing to tolerate. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. Realize what the engine is going in, however, as you may not be able to use the wildest cam out there. This may be of concern if you have vacuum assisted accessories, such as power brakes or steering. I don't think your duration figures are too outlandish and with the tight LCA and high lift, it should make some big torque. Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. what to expect with different lobe centers | Chevy Nova Forum While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. Methods: We evaluated 30 individuals with PD (62.47.2 years) and 22 age-matched healthy controls (61.06.4 years). When degreeing in the camshaft, you are making sure the intake centerline is precisely where the cam is intended to be. ~These are just some of the drawbacks weas guys who like to go mach 10 with our hair on fire and these little motors screaming at rpms that make other guys cryhave to deal with.~. I think the compression ratio has something to do with LSA too. 01 Choosing the right lobe separation angle for your LS cam shouldn't cause anxiety. (LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE)cam CRANES 110921 has the intake close at 45 degrees ABDC while the wider lsa CRANES 114681 closes the valves at 50.0 ABDC . I personally prefer to sacrifice the small amount more power for better idle quality. Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. by flat4racer17 Tue May 13, 2003 9:12 pm, Post Your email address will not be published. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It had a robust powerband with tons of usable torque. If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. A wider LSA moves intake- and exhaust-valve events farther apart and creates less overlap, which hurts intake-wave tuning. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. Cam Advise - 332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. Well, it is quite a natural event that you may not find the lope separation angle mentioned at the engine body. 108 vs 112 lobe seperation - Shoptalkforums.com Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers.) by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post The only reason the advance or retard a camshaft profile is to get the timing events where they need to be. lobe centers and lobe separation are 2 different things . After the next three pulls, it was clear the 113 cam was way down on low-end torque. Now here is where it gets tricky. Like choosing a cam in general, the key to eliminating separation anxiety is to find the proper balance of driveability and performance. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. by mike thompson Tue May 13, 2003 4:03 am, Post Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. It is an important note you must keep; due to the lobe separation angle, there creates an overlapping of intake valve opening time and exhaust valve closing time and vice versa. Attenuation of Seizures, Cognitive Deficits, and Brain Histopathology I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. but less of it at the same time. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. Supercharged and nitrous race engines typically benefit from a wider LSA because they dont require as much overlap for exhaust scavenging as does the naturally aspirated engine, continues Bolander. For Example: A 110-degree lobe separation means that the peak opening points of the Intake and Exhaust lobes is 110 degrees apart. It depends on the combination of engine size, head flow and head flow balance, as well as a big one, exhaust flow capabilities. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. It creates an unsteady manifold vacuum condition that, on a fuel-injected engine, confuses manifold air pressure (MAP) sensors, making it hard for them to regulate fueling. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. A lower efficient compression rate leads to a higher fuel consumption rate by your engine to produce higher power. [img]http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/downsideup09/DSCF2616-1.jpg[/img], [img]http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs139.snc1/5928_111214857139_110806152139_2127222_6826389_n.jpg[/img]. A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Let's just talk lobe sep angle. by farmer Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm, Post For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. If you shift at 7500-7800 add 4-6 degrees to both intake and exhaust and spread the lobe separation to 108-110. such as 290 @.050? The Crane has a smoother idle, broader power band, and . 110 LSA: The 110 LSA shows up mechanically advantageous in mechanical aspects like higher RPM, lower engine knock, moderate cylinder pressure, improved idle vacuum, and higher piston-to-valve clearance. 106 LSA: The overlapping is higher as 106 LSA is comparatively tighter LSA than 110 LSA. If the exhaust valve closes too early it will trap some of the spent gases in the combustion chamber, and if it closes too late it will over-scavenge the chamber and take out too much of the charge, again creating an artificially lean condition. Bolander says those cams help promote torque in a controlled and predictable manner, especially in no-wake zones and around the docks. Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. Also present during testing was a set of 1 7/8-inch Kooks headers, Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and F-body oil pan. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. Lobe Separation Angle - Restoration and Repair Help This cam split the difference between the 101 and 113 down the middle, and in theory should have walked the line between the results of the last two tests in every waywhich it did. Defining Lobe Center - Clay Smith Cams I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " However it is at the expense of a small amount of bottom end power and idle quality, due to the increased overlap. 108 vs 112 lobe seperation. cam for torque.110 or 112 LSA????? - Team Camaro Tech The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. Tight lobe separations, such as 108 or shorter, will cause the peak torque to build earlier in the RPM range and peak-out in a short amount of . Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures.
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